Has anyone had the pleasure of viewing the GEC website? Well, here it is.
http://www.gecgrading.com/index.html
Now I'd like to share my opinions on this service.
If you want to jump in please visit their site first. Doesn't take long believe me.
First I find this site kind of amusing. A large portion of it is disclaimers. Seems to me they are covering their butts before the fact. May be a wise move.
If you use GEC services or buy GEC coins, it seems to me, then don't complain if it's not what you expected of say, an MS68 coin for example.
Grading is subjective and based on opinions. In my opinion GEC can make up their own rules in grading a coin based on their subjective opinions. Funny that they still use the Sheldon scale though. Isn't that a bit "conformist"?
Second thing I noticed was the lack of any contact information. So how do you send a coin in? Do they just do this for friends, power sellers, mentally disturbed numismatists? Hey, I might qualify for the last one!
You can find GEC coins on ebay. I emailed a few sellers about them.
The first was the usual "trends at yadayada in MS67"! Well, this seller had a lot of five Morgans that listed in trends at $24,000. He then stated that indivually these coins often got $150-200!
Well, if my ciphering is on at $200 each that falls $23,000 short of trends.
Believe it or not I never got a response.
The second seller had MS67 Morgans with a Buy it Now in the $45 range. Seemed like a straight forward guy that I feel knew he had some MS63-64 Morgans and was pricing them accordingly.
I asked him if he knew how to contact GEC. He replied promptly that he did not. I have no problem with that seller.
I'm looking for any more information on GEC that anyone can provide.
Seems to me it's just another Third Grading Party (TGP) out to make a quick buck. This is only my opinion of course.
What's yours?
Saturday, June 9, 2007
Sunday, April 8, 2007
The Littleton Coin Company
Well, it's been a while since I posted anything on my own blog but I have been busy on a few other chat rooms.
So I'm driving home from work the other day and the Littleton Coin Company pops into my head. I gotta talk about them I say to myself so here it is:
First, I wouldn't call them a Third Party Grader and don't think they would either. They are a "legitimate" company that has been around for a VERY long time.
So what's my beef? Just their pricing to the uninformed.
Years ago I bought a silver eagle from them. Had a coupon from a magazine. Hey, it was at about the spot price of silver with free shipping so I went for it! Nice enough piece - it was even BU (have you seen one that wasn't?)
Next came the "coins on approval". Well the first was another common year silver eagle graded MS63 at twice spot price. Sent it back and told them don't waste their time unless they wanted to offer "real" coins at reasonable prices.
Surprisingly I got a response which basically stated that they had to charge more to pay their staff of graders. Excuse me - if I buy a roll of silver eagles and they are all not at least MS65 I'm upset.
They did honor my request though and I've never heard from them again.
Now as for their grading it's usually pretty good actually. I've seen enough of their coins in plastic holders with the grade. Have bought quite a few from my local dealer when he has bought them as junk silver.
He has also shown me what they pay for coins from dealers. It's way over retail but they are picky.
So bottom line on the Littleton Coin Company is that they do grade accurately for the most part and deliver what they promise. Only problem is that they are just WAY overpriced. Uniinformed buyers get sucked in and pay way too much. Same old story - when the buyer has to sell he/she is sorely disappointed.
Now there are a ton of sellers like this out there. Difference being most of the newer ones pay little for their coins then grossly overgrade so I REALLY DISLIKE them.
Unfortunately, I feel that Littleton planted the seed.
That's my say for the day.
clembo
So I'm driving home from work the other day and the Littleton Coin Company pops into my head. I gotta talk about them I say to myself so here it is:
First, I wouldn't call them a Third Party Grader and don't think they would either. They are a "legitimate" company that has been around for a VERY long time.
So what's my beef? Just their pricing to the uninformed.
Years ago I bought a silver eagle from them. Had a coupon from a magazine. Hey, it was at about the spot price of silver with free shipping so I went for it! Nice enough piece - it was even BU (have you seen one that wasn't?)
Next came the "coins on approval". Well the first was another common year silver eagle graded MS63 at twice spot price. Sent it back and told them don't waste their time unless they wanted to offer "real" coins at reasonable prices.
Surprisingly I got a response which basically stated that they had to charge more to pay their staff of graders. Excuse me - if I buy a roll of silver eagles and they are all not at least MS65 I'm upset.
They did honor my request though and I've never heard from them again.
Now as for their grading it's usually pretty good actually. I've seen enough of their coins in plastic holders with the grade. Have bought quite a few from my local dealer when he has bought them as junk silver.
He has also shown me what they pay for coins from dealers. It's way over retail but they are picky.
So bottom line on the Littleton Coin Company is that they do grade accurately for the most part and deliver what they promise. Only problem is that they are just WAY overpriced. Uniinformed buyers get sucked in and pay way too much. Same old story - when the buyer has to sell he/she is sorely disappointed.
Now there are a ton of sellers like this out there. Difference being most of the newer ones pay little for their coins then grossly overgrade so I REALLY DISLIKE them.
Unfortunately, I feel that Littleton planted the seed.
That's my say for the day.
clembo
Tuesday, February 27, 2007
The wonderful world of SGS
Isn't Google a wonderful thing? I was informed that the same person owns both Abon Coins and Cards and SGS (Star Grading Service). Of course Abon is a big seller on ebay and Overstock (and maybe more) and sells a ton of SGS coins that are generally VERY high grade. Least it says so on the slab.
Go back a few posts and you'll see the response I got from SGS when I questioned the lofty grades.
Of course before I posted this I wanted to do a little digging - make sure it's true. Here's where Google comes in. Type in Larry Bence and you will INDEED see that he owns both companies. I would think that is a conflict of interest wouldn't you?
Do PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG or even PCI sell their own slabbed coins? No they sell a service. Even if you don't care for any particular one at least they stick to what they get paid for and that is grading coins.
Also in my search I found a few links to CoinTalk. Cool place here's the address:
http://www.cointalk.org/
Want an interesting thread? Try this one.
http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=13262
Seems SGS is NOT highly respected by REAL collectors. I might also add that one contributor states that SGS is not a third party grading service. I disagree as if you go to the Star Grading Service site at:
http://www.stargrading.org/
They do, indeed, have a list of SERVICES that includes a price list for slabbing COINS AND CURRENCY.
Now, although I think they GROSSLY overgrade I suppose this would "qualify" them as a third party grading service.
So now ol' Mr. Bence is making money at both ends while the novice collector is taken to the cleaners. Now THAT'S a class act.
Hope this sheds some light on the subject for you. I really want your input on more services such as this. It's the only way we can educate and hopefully elimate.
clembo
Go back a few posts and you'll see the response I got from SGS when I questioned the lofty grades.
Of course before I posted this I wanted to do a little digging - make sure it's true. Here's where Google comes in. Type in Larry Bence and you will INDEED see that he owns both companies. I would think that is a conflict of interest wouldn't you?
Do PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG or even PCI sell their own slabbed coins? No they sell a service. Even if you don't care for any particular one at least they stick to what they get paid for and that is grading coins.
Also in my search I found a few links to CoinTalk. Cool place here's the address:
http://www.cointalk.org/
Want an interesting thread? Try this one.
http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=13262
Seems SGS is NOT highly respected by REAL collectors. I might also add that one contributor states that SGS is not a third party grading service. I disagree as if you go to the Star Grading Service site at:
http://www.stargrading.org/
They do, indeed, have a list of SERVICES that includes a price list for slabbing COINS AND CURRENCY.
Now, although I think they GROSSLY overgrade I suppose this would "qualify" them as a third party grading service.
So now ol' Mr. Bence is making money at both ends while the novice collector is taken to the cleaners. Now THAT'S a class act.
Hope this sheds some light on the subject for you. I really want your input on more services such as this. It's the only way we can educate and hopefully elimate.
clembo
Tuesday, February 20, 2007
IN MEMORY OF MIKE HUMPHREYS A REAL COIN COLLECTOR
Hello Folks,
Not ranting and raving here just paying my respects.
A friend of mine passed away Saturday February 17, 2007. His name was Mike Humphreys from Lost Nation, Iowa. I just learned this from his wife Lynda.
I have only known the Humphreys' for a few months. I met them on ebay when I contacted Mike about a 1795 Half Cent that was up for bid. Great pictures and accurately described raw coin. I asked Mike if he would consider a reasonable offer for this coin should it not sell.
He reponded that would be fine. Never did buy the coin but we became good friends. Mike was a VERY knowledgeable numismatist. The hell with that phrase a BONA FIDE coin collector and dealer!
I never met Mike in person but we had some great phone conversations. Not only did Mike know his coins but he was one HECK of a character. MAN we had some great conversations! People like this do not come along often.
We'll miss you Mike. You're "old school" in our hearts and minds. We're making a comeback.
My condolences to Lynda (with a Y) and family.
Mike will truly be missed.
Clembo
Not ranting and raving here just paying my respects.
A friend of mine passed away Saturday February 17, 2007. His name was Mike Humphreys from Lost Nation, Iowa. I just learned this from his wife Lynda.
I have only known the Humphreys' for a few months. I met them on ebay when I contacted Mike about a 1795 Half Cent that was up for bid. Great pictures and accurately described raw coin. I asked Mike if he would consider a reasonable offer for this coin should it not sell.
He reponded that would be fine. Never did buy the coin but we became good friends. Mike was a VERY knowledgeable numismatist. The hell with that phrase a BONA FIDE coin collector and dealer!
I never met Mike in person but we had some great phone conversations. Not only did Mike know his coins but he was one HECK of a character. MAN we had some great conversations! People like this do not come along often.
We'll miss you Mike. You're "old school" in our hearts and minds. We're making a comeback.
My condolences to Lynda (with a Y) and family.
Mike will truly be missed.
Clembo
Sunday, February 18, 2007
Let's start breaking them down
ALL RIGHT,
If you read my previous posts you'll see that I have issues with MOST of the coin grading services.
My new favorite is Star Grading Service (SGS). TOTAL GARBAGE!!!!
I've been selling a lot on Overstock.com as of late. Noticed a seller by the name of abon (whom I believe is also on ebay) selling a ton of coins graded by SGS. What caught my eye was the volume of MS67 graded Morgan Dollars. This is a lofty grade even on common dates. I just looked up a 1921-S MS66 SGS slab being sold by abon that "has an estimated market value of $7850 to $8375 oi MS66 (Sources include Redbook, Greysheet, Coin Values etc.)"
This coin was listed by abon out of Mansfield, Ohio while SGS is based in Bellville, Ohio. One heck of a coincidence but let's just call it that.
Now the starting bid on this coin was 99 cents. So let's assume the coin is worth only $5000 and not the stated $7850 to $8375. Unless you are the biggest moron this planet has ever seen wouldn't you be selling that coin for a LOT more. To hell with the 99 cent starting bid. I want five grand if it's legit.
Oh, if it's legit now doesn't that make you wonder? This is just one example but when I originally saw all of these SGS coins I went to the source.
Type Star Gradind Service into a Google search and see what pops up. The third one down mentions the word fraud. I decided to go directly to their web site first and ask some quesions.
To make a long story short I inquired about currency grading (a new feature) and why they slab so many MS67 Morgans. I asked them if there was a chunk of the Binion hoard that no one else knew about.
To my surprise I got a reponse it was the following:
"Hi,
I am Muslim and I say unto you I hope your CAMEL runs out of water!"
Okay, but you still haven't answered my questions. No offense to anyone that may read this but does the Koran have a section on coin grading? Especially on coins from a country that didn't exist when it was written?
Hmmmm, smoke that Camel and think about it.
This is the tip of the iceberg folks. Looking for feeback and welcome it!
clembo
If you read my previous posts you'll see that I have issues with MOST of the coin grading services.
My new favorite is Star Grading Service (SGS). TOTAL GARBAGE!!!!
I've been selling a lot on Overstock.com as of late. Noticed a seller by the name of abon (whom I believe is also on ebay) selling a ton of coins graded by SGS. What caught my eye was the volume of MS67 graded Morgan Dollars. This is a lofty grade even on common dates. I just looked up a 1921-S MS66 SGS slab being sold by abon that "has an estimated market value of $7850 to $8375 oi MS66 (Sources include Redbook, Greysheet, Coin Values etc.)"
This coin was listed by abon out of Mansfield, Ohio while SGS is based in Bellville, Ohio. One heck of a coincidence but let's just call it that.
Now the starting bid on this coin was 99 cents. So let's assume the coin is worth only $5000 and not the stated $7850 to $8375. Unless you are the biggest moron this planet has ever seen wouldn't you be selling that coin for a LOT more. To hell with the 99 cent starting bid. I want five grand if it's legit.
Oh, if it's legit now doesn't that make you wonder? This is just one example but when I originally saw all of these SGS coins I went to the source.
Type Star Gradind Service into a Google search and see what pops up. The third one down mentions the word fraud. I decided to go directly to their web site first and ask some quesions.
To make a long story short I inquired about currency grading (a new feature) and why they slab so many MS67 Morgans. I asked them if there was a chunk of the Binion hoard that no one else knew about.
To my surprise I got a reponse it was the following:
"Hi,
I am Muslim and I say unto you I hope your CAMEL runs out of water!"
Okay, but you still haven't answered my questions. No offense to anyone that may read this but does the Koran have a section on coin grading? Especially on coins from a country that didn't exist when it was written?
Hmmmm, smoke that Camel and think about it.
This is the tip of the iceberg folks. Looking for feeback and welcome it!
clembo
More on or MORON Coin Grading Services
Well, I'm back at it. This is going to be fun.
There are several gazillion coin grading services at this time it seems and most are GARBAGE!
To set the record straight I am most comfortable with PCGS, NGC and ANACS. All have been around for a long time and run by people that actually know things about coins.
Now, most of the others are run by "wannabes". These are people that "wannabe" many things. Rich is a good example. I "wannabe" rich so I'll start a coin grading service. How do I go about this?
First I have to get professional looking holders. No problem there, I can get them from a multitude of suppliers.
Next, I need a label. Hell, the computer can do that with the right software.
It doesn't matter if I'm even remotely qualified to grade coins at this point. I've got the basic materials. So what's the next step? I need exposure. Bada bing bada boom I've got EBAY!
I just need to slab some of my HORRIBLY over graded coins, list them on ebay and sell them to the suckers! Next thing you know I'm a "legitimate" grader with lots of buyers.
Now, keep in mind that at this point the "idiot" buyers are just as responsible for creating the "monster". An educated buyer won't touch this stuff whereas a novice that hasn't done his/her homework is the TARGET.
Next a money hungry dealer spots the new service. I find that many of these are "estate" sellers. I believe that as much as I believe in the tooth fairy (who is real by the way - hence I'm looking into dentures).
Aforementioned big seller starts sending a ton of stuff to the service for "professional" grading. Grader makes money and seller is raking it in knowing it's all bogus. Can you say FRAUD? The scary thing is that people keep buying this crap and singing the praises of the seller. Can I get an AMEN on that.
So when does the truth rear it's ugly head. I can tell you because I've seen it at my local dealer on MANY occasions.
The buyer hits a bump in the road and needs money fast so they take some of these coins to a REAL coin dealer. Dealer looks at it and instantly knows it's overgraded crap. In my local dealer's jargon he will usually tell the seller/victim "I'm going to insult you". Why does he say this? Because he MIGHT give you dealer bid on a better piece using REAL grading standards. Of course a lot of this stuff has probably been cleaned at some point so if it's a silver coin (and it is often Morgan Dollars) you may get just over junk silver. Suddenly your $1500 MS67 coin that you paid only $130 for is netting you $11. Man that sucks!
So now the buyer of this coin is not only an idiot but also out a bunch of money. Caveat Emptor!
My computer is slowing down now so I need to reboot. Knew I shouldn't have bought it from Crazy Duke's Computer Emporium and Body Shop!
There are several gazillion coin grading services at this time it seems and most are GARBAGE!
To set the record straight I am most comfortable with PCGS, NGC and ANACS. All have been around for a long time and run by people that actually know things about coins.
Now, most of the others are run by "wannabes". These are people that "wannabe" many things. Rich is a good example. I "wannabe" rich so I'll start a coin grading service. How do I go about this?
First I have to get professional looking holders. No problem there, I can get them from a multitude of suppliers.
Next, I need a label. Hell, the computer can do that with the right software.
It doesn't matter if I'm even remotely qualified to grade coins at this point. I've got the basic materials. So what's the next step? I need exposure. Bada bing bada boom I've got EBAY!
I just need to slab some of my HORRIBLY over graded coins, list them on ebay and sell them to the suckers! Next thing you know I'm a "legitimate" grader with lots of buyers.
Now, keep in mind that at this point the "idiot" buyers are just as responsible for creating the "monster". An educated buyer won't touch this stuff whereas a novice that hasn't done his/her homework is the TARGET.
Next a money hungry dealer spots the new service. I find that many of these are "estate" sellers. I believe that as much as I believe in the tooth fairy (who is real by the way - hence I'm looking into dentures).
Aforementioned big seller starts sending a ton of stuff to the service for "professional" grading. Grader makes money and seller is raking it in knowing it's all bogus. Can you say FRAUD? The scary thing is that people keep buying this crap and singing the praises of the seller. Can I get an AMEN on that.
So when does the truth rear it's ugly head. I can tell you because I've seen it at my local dealer on MANY occasions.
The buyer hits a bump in the road and needs money fast so they take some of these coins to a REAL coin dealer. Dealer looks at it and instantly knows it's overgraded crap. In my local dealer's jargon he will usually tell the seller/victim "I'm going to insult you". Why does he say this? Because he MIGHT give you dealer bid on a better piece using REAL grading standards. Of course a lot of this stuff has probably been cleaned at some point so if it's a silver coin (and it is often Morgan Dollars) you may get just over junk silver. Suddenly your $1500 MS67 coin that you paid only $130 for is netting you $11. Man that sucks!
So now the buyer of this coin is not only an idiot but also out a bunch of money. Caveat Emptor!
My computer is slowing down now so I need to reboot. Knew I shouldn't have bought it from Crazy Duke's Computer Emporium and Body Shop!
Coin Grading Services
Coins are a subject near and dear to my heart. Been involved in collecting since I was a little kid and now sell as well.
In recent years there has been an influx of third party "professional" graders. Although coin grading is a matter of opinion most of the newer services are borderline fraud and are utilised to rip off the newer collectors big time.
It's like buying a coin from the loudmouth on TV. HE IS ripping you off and most people realize this if they are forced to sell what they've bought.
My wife has the pleasure of hearing me rant about this with stunning regularity. It was HER idea for me to start a blog. Trying to tell me something dear?
That in mind here's my blog. It will not ALWAYS be coins. I rant about a LOT of things so why not share them with the rest of the world? Ain't technology grand!
Signing off for now but expect more. Hopefully I WILL offend a few people by letting others know what they truly are.
just call me
Clembo
In recent years there has been an influx of third party "professional" graders. Although coin grading is a matter of opinion most of the newer services are borderline fraud and are utilised to rip off the newer collectors big time.
It's like buying a coin from the loudmouth on TV. HE IS ripping you off and most people realize this if they are forced to sell what they've bought.
My wife has the pleasure of hearing me rant about this with stunning regularity. It was HER idea for me to start a blog. Trying to tell me something dear?
That in mind here's my blog. It will not ALWAYS be coins. I rant about a LOT of things so why not share them with the rest of the world? Ain't technology grand!
Signing off for now but expect more. Hopefully I WILL offend a few people by letting others know what they truly are.
just call me
Clembo
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